S4E14: Going Slow Just As Fast As We Can: Boundaries, Self-Care & the Power of Self-Preservation with Therapist, Weena Wise

In this episode of Going Slow Just As Fast As We Can, we sit down with licensed therapist Weena Wise to explore how unapologetically setting healthy boundaries and practicing intentional self-care are not luxuries, but acts of self-preservation. Weena shares practical wisdom for recognizing your limits, protecting your peace, and giving yourself permission to slow down in a world that constantly demands more. Whether you’re struggling to say “no,” learning to prioritize your own needs, or simply longing for a healthier rhythm of life, this conversation will help you embrace boundaries as a pathway to freedom, wholeness, and true rest.

ASK WEENA

Do you have a burning question for Weena, well ask away! You can email her at mazuri@mazuriministries.org. You can also connect with her on social media

Podcast and Blog - https://www.covenanttherapy.com/blog 

Social media - IG, FB @weenawise

https://www.covenanttherapy.com/

CONNECT WITH US

And as always, Annie and I would love to hear from you. Have you or a loved one been impacted by cancer or another illness? How are you coping? How can we pray for you? Please email us at mazuri@mazuriministries.org, or share your story with us on IG @davenialeawrites, or on FB @annieraney

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Today's episode song is Put Your Records On by Corinne Bailey Rae. Please note this song is for your listening enjoyment only and cannot be downloaded or shared.

Thanks for listening! From our hearts to yours!!

Transcript

Annie: Welcome to the Didn't Ask to Be a Hero podcast.

I'm your host, Annie Raney. In each episode, we will get an opportunity to see how ordinary women are now living amazing, abundant and extraordinary lives with God's help.

May their stories serve to encourage and inspire you. Let's get started.

Hello, listeners,

how are you doing today?

I don't know about you, listeners, but life is just crazy busy, isn't it?

Shuffling appointments around and trying to just make everything happen.

In Ecclesiastes 3, it says, to everything there is a season and a time to every purpose under the heaven.

Sometimes I get through the day and I'm like, really?

Was there time for this? Was there time for that?

How do we make time for all our business appointments and to be there for our family as well? Now, Divinia, I know you just got a new grandbaby.

How are you doing that with your job, with your husband, with your children, with your grandbaby?

Davenia: What?

You're right, Annie. Life is absolutely crazy. And yes,

it's a struggle to find that rhythm again.

And so I am delighted that we have Wena Wise with us again today because I think she can help us. I think she can give us some strategies and tips for how we can find that rhythm again.

Even in, you know, you mentioned seasons,

which implies that this is just for a moment. But honestly, I feel like this is just one constant long distance season of busy. So, Wena, welcome back and how can you help us?

Weena: Thank you so much, Annie and Davinia, for having me back.

And recently someone said to me,

oh my gosh, you're moving so slowly with that. And I said, listen, people pay me good money to teach them how to relax.

Yes,

yes.

Annie: How do women do? I know that I sometimes, if I am doing it like you just said, I'm having a down moment. Moment. And somebody sees me just doing nothing, like maybe sitting there with a cup of tea and just not doing anything or.

And they think, oh, well, she's not busy. She doesn't do anything. Either she's lazy or something like that.

And yet I'm just taking a moment and I start to feel guilty that I'm not doing something.

Weena: Yeah,

we're gonna probably circle through a couple of words today.

One is unapologetic.

We have to be unapologetic about the ways we take care of ourselves. And sometimes slowing down is one of the greatest forms of care that we can give to ourselves in a society that will put as much on our plate as we allow without thought to how it will negatively impact us.

So we have to be. This is the next word. Intentional about thinking about how these things impact our lives and the grand scheme of it.

In the grand scheme of it, not just in this moment or not just today, when I wake up with my to do list and someone's pulling at me from every direction.

But how will me responding to all of these requests and all of these tasks impact the future me?

Davenia: Hmm. So I love that word being unapologetic.

And,

and so it sounds like what you're saying is we have to prioritize that slower rhythm and do so without apology.

Weena: Yeah,

but so let me give you some very interesting examples that some people will relate to immediately.

Some women are apologetic for the fact that they don't feel they have the time to always cook a homemade meal from scratch.

Some of us are apologetic that we have a cleaning person come through once or twice a month.

You know, we're apologetic when we are having that cup of tea or we want to prioritize a show that we like to watch,

or that we want to slip away from partners or children and have a brunch or a spa day or do something for us.

We use the term selfish or we hear that term coming back in our direction. But there's a big difference between selfish and being self protective.

So different.

Davenia: I like that.

Weena: So different.

And you know, we're teetering on this boundary word a lot.

That's been a buzzword. People are learning that they have to have boundaries and they have to have healthy boundaries. And there's a camp of people who believe that boundaries shut people out.

But boundaries actually keep people close because boundaries help us moderate how much we love people versus loving ourselves. And when we moderate that, we can go the distance and keep loving people and keep having something in the tank to give to people.

If we have no boundaries,

we spend everything in the account, we run all of the gas out of our tank, and then we have nothing left,

though there are still going to be needs that, that need to be met.

People don't get anything else from today people to understand that boundaries do not shut love out. They don't shut people out. They actually pull people close when we do it right.

Davenia: So what are some ways to do it right? How. How do we set healthy boundaries?

Weena: By allowing our self awareness to lead the charge,

Being aware of how much gas is in the tank,

being aware of your own limitations.

That is a whole exercise,

understanding when enough is enough versus giving too much and then being reactive to that on the back end.

Davenia: That is my story.

I give and give and give and give.

Yeah. And I think, I expect that others will say,

oh, wow,

that Divina, maybe she's giving too much.

Maybe I need to pull back and I need to take some of the burden off her plate. But that's not human nature. Right.

The more you give, the more people are going to want. And so they're going to keep wanting and wanting.

And then I keep giving,

and then when it finally wears me down,

then I have this reaction which probably seems like a overreaction to that specific moment or situation where for me, it's just been building and building and building until I explode.

And so now no one's happy.

And maybe if I had set those boundaries,

then we all would have known how to play out the interaction.

Weena: Yes.

If I had been aware of my own limitations and educated people around me on my limitations,

then everyone would be on the same page about how much I can give before I've given too much.

Annie: Okay, so we know I'm going to ask for some direct since I love the way that you. I don't know, somehow you're so succinct with putting your words together and things, but.

Okay, so as you know, Divinia and I are both educators, right? So in my college class, I have an hour of Zoom office hours,

and I have students. You know, I tell them, hey, pop in and you know, I'm there for you. But one semester I had this kid who was coming every single time.

He would pop in, say, my office hours, let's say three to four,

he would be there at 2:55 waiting until I opened the zoom.

And so I was like, excited.

Weena: And then.

Annie: But then what would happen was he had all these questions, I was helping him and I was excited about it. But then it started to become every single office hour, he was there at 2:55.

And sometimes I got crossover past 4: O'.

Weena: Clock.

Annie: Now, mind you, I have papers to grade. I have other. All this stuff going on.

And since no other students were showing up at that time,

I let it go past the 4 o' clock hour. So he was with me for over an hour every single time. And I was exhausted. So I talked to another friend of ours,

and she's like, annie, what are you doing?

And she said, you need to set boundaries. How long do you meet with students? I said, usually I tell them, like 15 minutes. She said, then what are you doing?

Weena: And I said, well, I just feel so bad.

Annie: She's like, yeah, but you're not helping if you're so exhausted, she said, one of the best things you can do is to give them a timeline.

So at the next meeting, I said, okay. I said, darlin, I have another student scheduled to come in, which is true. And I said, I can only meet with you for 15 minutes.

Do you know what the student did?

Weena: He said, oh, okay.

Annie: And at the. When we started nearing the end of 15 minutes, he actually said, oh, how much more time do I have? And I was like,

what? And at the end of 15 minutes, I said, okay, um, if you want to come back tomorrow, I'll see you again tomorrow. The stress that was on me just alleviated.

And I was like, what?

And I started doing it with all my other students. I said, okay, I got 15 minutes because I got, you know, five other students to meet with.

I'm able to do that now so well with my students. But how do I do that with my family and friends? I just. I don't know. What do I say?

Weena: Hey, I'm only meeting with you minutes.

Annie: I'm done.

Weena: Tell me first, how does it feel different, friends and family versus student. What's the difference?

Annie: That is okay. It is. There is a difference. Now,

how do I word that? I guess I want to be with my family in a different way. I want to help my students, you know, with their thing and what they're doing.

But it's also my job with my family. It's, you know, family is 24, seven,

at least. My students are, you know, within the workday usually.

And I guess I do enjoy being with them, but sometimes it just gets. And not to say anything bad about the family or friend,

just.

It's blurry, exhausted,

and. But then I feel like, oh, my goodness, with my student, it's kind of easier. I don't have to think about that.

Bounce back. But then with the family, like, are they going to be offended? A family or friends, right. Are they going to be offended? Are they going to think I don't.

Weena: Like them or love them or want them? Annie, you just delved into one of the biggest dilemmas that many of us face when we're trying to figure out how do we show up?

For people in intimate relationships,

the difference between the relationship with your students or with colleagues is that those relationships aren't necessarily intimate ones. They're professional ones. And they have some rules and regulations and guidelines that are typically in place already.

But when you talk about friends and family members,

it gets personal.

And you then are responsible for defining the rules and the boundaries on your own. And let's Face it, society gives us a lot of messaging around how we should show up if we love a person and love a person unconditionally.

But love can be conditional if we want it to last.

I know that is so controversial, but again,

even the word boundary is controversial.

There are some better working conditions,

ideal working conditions that we subscribe to in our work lives.

We also have ideal loving conditions in relationships.

So I can love you unconditionally,

but I might be dog tired, beat down if I'm bleeding out, giving more than I can afford to give, and not getting recharged or replenished or reciprocated.

Right.

But if there are conditions that we lay out,

like, this is the optimal way for me to be in a loving relationship with you, and everyone's on the same page.

I know their optimal conditions, they know mine.

Then we can make that love last. It can feel present, it can feel full.

The same way you're able to be excited about meeting with your student for 15 minutes every week. You are excited and present for your kids, excited and present for your partner,

excited and present for your best friend or your siblings or your mom and dad because you know that you're going to get a break at some point.

There is a condition that we have established and I can love you optimally in this time frame or in this activity that we're doing.

And if it goes beyond that and we haven't established a stopping point or a time when I can regroup and recalibrate,

then you're going to be getting the rest of me,

not the best of me.

Davenia: I like that.

I know one thing that's helped me also is that how you said society is sort of reframed what it means to love and unconditional love.

And so it seems now that that's synonymous with just meet my every need and say yes to my every request.

And for me, I've had to reframe it back to right. But is that really helping you? Maybe if I meet your every single need, I'm enabling you.

I'm not loving you, I'm just making you dependent.

Weena: I think that's a great point.

We have to figure out in every individual relationship how to best show up for people.

There is no general script that we can follow.

Every relationship has its own nuances,

its own dynamics.

And sometimes we try to apply these universal rules and we take this universal messaging and we try to make it one size fits all and we put it into our lives and we find.

Annie: That it doesn't fit,

you know, it's interesting because I'm thinking of so many things as you're. As you're talking and Divinia and the things that you're saying, too.

And so I think we know, you know, and listeners, you know, I lost my sister last year,

and it has, of course, it's impacted me. But her husband, they were soulmates, and together they were married for 28 years, together for like 30 or something years.

And he has changed. And he talked to me about it, and he said, everything that my wife, my sister,

my wife wanted me to do,

I'm now doing. And there was a sadness in him because he said,

I should have listened to her when she was like. She was telling me,

say no to people. Because he always, like the church and work, they always ask him to do something. He does many things. He cooks, he does all this other stuff.

And he would do. He would say yes to five people for the same day to do something. I don't know how he would get it done, but he was burning himself out.

And she said, you've got to say no.

And I think the point I want to make here is that he wishes so bad that he could tell her yes. He's finally doing it and taking the time he's being.

And it's some of the words that you. Throughout he's being intentional in saying yes or no. He's like, you know what? I'm gonna be too exhausted. Whereas before, it didn't matter.

He could be exhausted. He would still say yes. Yes. He would never say no,

and he would never self care.

And now he's actually starting to self care.

What steps can we take to start being intentional?

Weena: And your example is an amazing one because there are so many Christians who subscribe to this idea that to be selfless means to never say no.

And particularly to the church.

If someone asks you to usher or be on a committee or show up, donate, volunteer, sing in the choir, even if you can't hold a note,

you're up in the pew sink.

And some of that comes from a place of being a people pleaser. Some of it comes from growing up in a family or getting these messages from the people around you that your worth is tied so inextricably to what you do for people.

Davenia: Amen. Amen. Amen.

Weena: When you start to say no or when you think about slowing down, you're actually associating that with not being useful or valuable anymore.

Annie: Yes.

Davenia: Yep.

Weena: So I want us to be clear when we're having this discussion that I'm not Coming on to just tell people unilaterally say no. Don't explore the reasons why you're saying yes so much.

This is actually a much more layered conversation.

But that the root of it is joy and at the root of it is life preservation.

Trying to be present in life and actually experience a level of balance which doesn't mean equality, that everything's 50, 50 all the time. It's about equity.

It's about whatever the ratio is that feels good to you.

If you rest 20% of the time, but you give 80% of the time, if that 20% of rest recharges you enough, then that's your formula.

Everybody has a different formula. But we are trying to achieve equity,

which stops us from becoming resentful because we're giving,

bleeding out, doing so much for others that we either don't know ourselves or we can't experience joy in ourselves for ourselves,

because we never make space for ourselves.

And it feels like that's what your sister was trying to get for her husband.

Amazing man would do anything for her and anyone else who asked and found a lot of value in that and maybe even some joy.

Annie: Yes.

Weena: But there's a trade off there, right?

That were things that she wanted to experience with him are just things that she wanted him to experience for himself that he never would have expected, experienced if he didn't slow down and figure out how to be more intentional.

Annie: We know I gotta share one thing with you.

My sister for years had been telling him,

let's go to therapy. They had a really good relationship in marriage, but she said, you know, hey. And he was like, no. And they experienced something and like the loss of a child or something.

And she. He was like, no, if you want to go, you can go. I'm not going to.

So when she finally passed away, he was. He was in a place he never imagined. I mean, he.

He went to grief counseling and therapy.

And then now I'm like, who is this guy? He is like preaching therapy to everyone. He looks at me, he goes, you think you need to go therapy? He said, my wife was right.

And I don't know. We know this. There are a lot of people who are resistant to.

Weena: Yes.

Annie: The therapy. So. Because they think that. I think society has dubbed it, oh, you go to therapy, you crazy, right? Or you can't get on life.

Weena: Yeah. Some cultures are pretty slow to warm up to the idea that we can benefit from this level of guidance. And though we didn't really reintroduce me, I am a licensed therapist.

I've been in practice for 20 years and I work specifically with individuals, couples and families around all things relational.

And we have a relationship to everything.

A relationship not only to people, but to money, to food,

you name it. And so everyone can benefit from evaluating how they're relating to certain things in their life that might be stumbling blocks or holding them back.

So to your point, Annie,

you don't know what you don't know. Sometimes people don't always understand how therapy can benefit them.

And they again,

society has messaging.

Often the first image of therapy we receive is on a television show and a therapist with glasses sitting down on their nose is sitting in a chair saying,

that's interesting.

How does that make you feel?

Right? Those are the phrases that you see. And you can't always see a benefit from that if that's what therapy is going to be. But therapy is much more than that.

And I often use the analogy that we can go to a gym and we can get on the equipment and then we can exercise.

But it's not until you get a personal trainer who's licensed because they understand how the body works, how the equipment works, how to get the full use of the equipment,

how to put the incline up at a certain angle and tell you a certain speed to walk on the treadmill to really get you sweating,

that you take that workout to the limit.

So we can do some things on our own at the gym,

but it's not until we watch a video from an expert or we have someone there to personally train us that we get the maximum benefits of something.

And you can't know what you don't know because you'll go to the gym and you'll do 30 minutes on the treadmill walking with it at level, right?

And you'll pump up the speed to 4.0 and you're like, I'm doing something here. I burned 200 calories.

And then you work out with a personal trainer and they pump that incline up and they lower the speed and you're walking uphill the whole time. Then in the same 30 minutes you burned 415 calories and you're like, oh my gosh,

I could barely make it.

And minor adjustments that we can make when we have a different perspective,

it can change your whole life.

Wow.

So it's unfortunate, but often people don't come to therapy until a life changing event has occurred and they feel backed into a corner and they've been trying things.

They believe that they can manage it on their own, just like going to the gym.

But when My health starts to really decline and I need to see a nutritionist now because my doctor said, or I've had a stroke or a heart attack and now my doctor said, no, you gotta drop 40 pounds.

I can't do that on my own. Just talking on my cell phone, walking at the gym, faking like I'm working out. I actually need some help to hit this goal.

That's when people come to therapy and a lot of them have the respons that your brother had, your brother in law that wow.

I don't know what I don't know sometimes I couldn't have guessed that this therapist could be this insightful or that the interventions that they can prescribe are just out of the realm of what I might think of on a daily basis.

Davenia: Wow.

Wow.

I love how you described that. And a lot of times we will give attention, immediate attention to our physical health,

but we don't recognize that our mental and emotional and spiritual health is just as important.

And so yes, sometimes we need that extra support to maybe help us just think about things in a different way or to get out of a rut that we're stuck in or to give us specific strategies to help.

Weena: Yes, Davinia, to your point and in general, as we talk about how do we make more time to juggle all the things?

If you get nothing else out of a 50 minute therapy session, it's actually the space to slow down.

Davenia: Wow.

Weena: It feels counterintuitive sometimes because There are only 24 hours in a day and you have a million things to cram into those hours.

So when you think about figuring out an hour where you can even come to therapy.

But even that is something that should make you pause and reflect.

Because if you can't find an hour to slow down and think or recalibrate or even strategize for how to stay ahead of your day, stay ahead of the week versus feeling like you're always reacting to the week, reacting to the things on your to do list, or reacting to the requests that people have.

That's problem number one.

The other thing that therapy gives us is a moment to recharge. Because often the things we need to do require creativity and inspiration.

And when we don't have rest, we can't be creative.

Inspiration rarely comes when you're running on an empty tank.

So often in therapy,

what you get are these revelations and moments of creativity where you can think outside of your own box and figure out a solution alongside your therapist because you have a minute to slow down and actually just Focus on one or two things at a time.

Whereas we are constantly multitasking when we're not in that therapeutic setting.

When you're multitasking, you can be pretty quick on the fly.

But when you come across a problem that's complex,

where it requires you to think of some strategies that don't naturally come to you,

it requires you to slow down,

use some different tools,

your therapist is going to try to make space for you to even put in more rest. And I've seen it over and over again that when people make small changes that give them more rest,

even through self care, not just sleep,

all of a sudden some answers to their problems start to come to them. Because now they have the energy to be inspired and creative enough to think through the problem.

Davenia: Wow.

Wow, wow, wow.

Well, Rena,

before we close,

because you're so great with giving sort of those one liner, those responses.

So the church calls me Davinia. You're so gifted at putting together workshops for whoever.

Can you develop this workshop for teen girls?

How do I reply when A, I know that is not my area,

really,

and B,

while it's a good thing,

it may not be in alignment with my mission or purpose at that time and why reply.

Weena: And I'm assuming you also don't have the time, meaning that it would be detrimental to your schedule to try to squeeze yet another thing in.

Davenia: Yeah, right.

Weena: Deacon Jones, thank you so much for the offer.

Thank you so much for thinking of me.

I know that this is important and I'm happy to help you identify someone who may have the gifting and the time to do this.

But in this season,

I know that you just be getting the rest of me. You wouldn't be getting the best of me if I did this.

And God operates in a spirit of excellence and this will be out of alignment with that.

Davenia: Wow, I'm so glad this is recorded. I can go back and listen and write that down and memorize it because that is excellent. That is excellent.

Annie: Maybe we could just record. Take that clip of her saying that, Divinia, and make it our voicemail.

Weena: Yeah.

Davenia: Yes, right.

Annie: And we'll just say this is me saying hello. And then wow.

Weena: We know.

Annie: We are so excited that this is not the last time we're gonna have you on. And I know our listeners are gonna appreciate this because you really help us,

you know, walk away with at least one thing that we can take. And listeners, you know, I started off saying to everything there was a season and a time to every purpose under heaven.

And part of that is also,

you know, self reflecting and giving yourself the time to slow down.

Be unapologetic about saying no. You can say it nicely, like the way we, you know, because I want to say no, I'm exhausted. You already gave me 10 tasks to do.

But the way Weena said it was so much better. Please go back and listen to how she said it.

And you know, you have to be self protective of your own energy, of your own time and be intentional about it if you want people to have the best of you and not just the leftovers, the rest of you, as Weena said.

And at the one of the verses in Ecclesiastes 3,

the beginning of verse 11 says it all. He hath made everything beautiful in his time.

And we have to pay attention to what Jesus said in Matthew 7, 3, 4.

He said in the NKJV version, why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider what is in your own eye? Take care of yourself so that you can then take care of others.

And so listeners, from our heart to yours, this song's for you